Wednesday, December 9, 2009

TLC Wins In Court Against Jon Gosselin, Kate's Serving, Are You Buying? Hailey vs. Jon

TLC Wins In Court Against Jon Gosselin:

A judge granted TLC's request for a preliminary injunction against Jon Gosselin late Thursday following a day of testimony in a Maryland court room, and's Sarah Park was there when Judge Michael D. Mason made his decision. The ruling means that Jon must abide by the exclusivity and confidentiality agreement in his contract, putting an end to his unapproved and paid interviews with various outlets. It will also prohibit him from continuing to pursue competing TV deals.

The action took place in Montgomery County Circuit Court TLC will continue to litigate its breach of contract lawsuit against its rogue one-time star. A trial date for that action has been set for April, 2010. In a side note, has learned exclusively that Jon's lawyer Mark Heller was denied permission by the judge to sit at the table with defense counsel Thursday. Heller is not licensed to practice in Maryland and did not apply for special permission to practice in this case. He was relegated to sitting in the audience.

After the judge's ruling, TLC released this statement: "We are pleased with the Court's ruling today. The Court has validated our view that Mr. Gosselin has a valid, binding contract and that he has breached it repeatedly. Step one -- getting the court to order Mr. Gosselin to comply with his contractual obligations -- has been accomplished. Any further breaches going forward will be violations of a court order. We look forward to the next phase of the litigation, which is to pursue our claim for damages resulting from Mr. Gosselin's numerous breaches."

Jon was not present for the proceedings at the Maryland Circuit Court. He had been expected to be questioned under oath regarding his outside income, statements about TLC and more.
TLC's attorney, Paul Gaffney, a partner in the firm of Williams & Connolly, methodically and emphatically made his case, eliciting testimony that left no doubt Gosselin had breached his contract. The judge's decision proved that Gaffney and TLC met every requirement for the injunction, a ruling that will drastically change Jon's life and silence his paid extra-curricular activities that TLC claimed caused them great harm. TLC Chief Operating Officer Edward Sabin testified that Gosselin's behavior was embarrassing for the network and the show, pointing to an August appearance he made in Las Vegas at a pool party. "It made the show look bad," Sabin said of Jon & Kate Plus 8. "Photos of Jon Gosselin with scores of bikini-clad women was inconsistent with our image brand of our show."

Jon's lawyer Peter Toumbekis said in his closing argument that the 32-year old's lifestyle had not done any "irreparable harm" and pointed to the fact that since the controversy surrounding the Gosselin's marriage surfaced, the show's ratings went "through the roof!" Toumbekis also brought up the Pennsylvania Labor Department's ongoing investigation regarding the show's contract in the context of the children, alleging the network purposefully circumvented child labors laws and neglected to justly compensate the eight kids. But the judge wasn't buying the argument. And the granting of the preliminary injunction is partially based on a belief that TLC is likely to prevail at trial.

EXCLUSIVE VIDEO INTERVIEWS: TLC Wins In Court Against Jon Gosselin - Radar Reports From Scene

Kate Gosselin Serves Food For New Reality Show? JUST JARED.COM

Kate Gosselin no longer has Jon & Kate Plus 8 but may have a new show in the works. News station WRAL cameras captured the 34-year-old reality TV mom serving food for over three hours at Finch’s Restaurant in Raleigh, North Carolina on Tuesday morning (December 8). Kate’s longtime bodyguard, Steve Neild, said Kate was shooting a “test” segment for a future program. No word on whether Kate’s twins and sextuplets will be involved in the show. You can bet Jon won’t be starring in it!

Hailey Glassman Gives Deposition, Says “Jon Is A Monster” , But I Still Live With Him:

Jon Gosselin’s embattled girlfriend, Hailey Glassman, was deposed on Monday by lawyers for TLC and got a painful surprise – confirmation that her boyfriend cheated on her.
In an exclusive interview with after the deposition Glassman had only harsh words for Jon and called him “a monster.” She was the third witness deposed by TLC in their breach of contract lawsuit against the Jon & Kate Plus 8 star.

Glassman, 22, blasted Jon and said: “He became a monster. He’s master manipulator and a compulsive liar.” After sticking with him faithfully for eight months, Glassman got definitive proof Monday that Jon cheated on her — with former Star reporter Kate Major. “I was told under oath that Jon really did sleep with Kate Major,” a teary-eyed Glassman told “I’m mind boggled and hurt by it. And he still lies to me about it and denies it to this day. “Back in June, Jon came to me and said he had a friend who felt horrible for me and wanted to do a ‘defending Hailey’ article,” she explained. “I think back now and say to myself, ‘Hailey, you should have been smarter.’ I mean they told me, ‘Kate Major is going to pretend to be Jon’s girlfriend so they can take the heat off of you’, and I was like, ‘great! Ok, thank you!’”
But photos of Major and Jon together made her feel the “ultimate betrayal.” Jon’s legal team did not have a lawyer present at today’s deposition, an unusual move.

Hailey says she told TLC’s Lawyers that she never discussed business deals with Jon and that she was shocked to read reports that she was in on several money making ventures with the reality dad. “Anyone with a brain can guess that he did stuff outside his contract,” she admits. “He couldn’t do anything without TLC’s approval, we all know that. But he didn’t discuss business deals with me.” The one deal Hailey did do was an interview with a major entertainment television show after she was approached with an offer by Michael Heller. “Michael Heller came to me to do the interview and I said that the only way I would do it was if I could be honest and bare my soul. So we did the interview. Then when the check came, Michael wouldn’t give it to me because he said that Jon owed his father [Mark Heller] money and he wanted me to sign my check over to Jon. It was the most ridiculous thing in the world. To this day, Mike Heller has my check from October.”

Saying Goodbye To The Original Home:

Finally some good news for Jon and Kate Gosselin – it appears the couple has finally sold their original Pennsylvania home for around $300,000, Radar has learned.
The Jon & Kate Plus 8 reality couple had been trying to sell the 5 bedroom 2.5 bath home in Elizabethtown, Pa, since March 2009.

A spokesman from local realtors Brownstone
Real Estate confirmed to that the property was off the market and under contract – if everything proceeds then the deal should go through in the next four to six weeks.The embattled couple – who are currently going through a messy divorce – bought the property for $280,000 in 2006. On season four, of Jon & Kate Plus Eight an episode showed contractors getting the house in tip-top shape – including removing lighting that had been installed for filming purposes – before it went up for sale. The home is in a suburban neighborhood where the houses are built fairly close together on approx. 1/3-acre lots.
It's a family-friendly area where kids ride bikes, skateboard and play outside when the weather is warm. But it wasn't always a peaceful place for the family of 10 - former neighbors say that curious fans often drove by the Gosselin's house to gawk. Last fall, the Gosselins moved into a $1.1 million, 6,000-square-foot home in Wernersville, Pa. The closing for the 5-bedroom, 5.5 bath home was on Oct. 23, 2008, records show. Unlike their old house, the family now has plenty of privacy - the nearly 24-acre property is fenced in and has a metal gate at the end of the driveway, about a half mile from the front door. The couple is still to decide what to do with their current home once their divorce is finalized.


  1. What sticks out, in my mind, is that Michael Heller is withholding Hailey's interview payment unless she signs it over to Jon so he could pay his dad. Isn't that extortion? Wow. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Neither am I surprised about what she said about Jon.

    Secondly, I'm glad the other house got sold. Now Kate won't have to worry about making payments on it anymore. I read somewhere that the sale price was actually $325,000, which here in California, is a steal, considering a house here (including mine) only has have half the square footage and can cost even more, even in this market.

  2. Lucysmom -
    I agree with you.

    I think it is bizarre that Heller is withholding the check for Hailey. They aren't married so not sure how a check made payable to Hailey can be held by Heller for a debt incurred by Jon.

    I'm so happy that the other house sold. Hopefully they can close on that soon.

  3. I wonder what the premise of the show is that Kate was filming. The food on the restaurant's website doesn't seem to be organic or healthy.

    As for Jon and Hailey, I still can't believe they are still living together. Boggles my mind.

    I wonder who bought their old house... I hope they don't get people bothering them because it was the Gosselin house. But it's good that it sold. I'm sure that's quite a relief to Jon and Kate. Well, maybe more to Kate because Jon doesn't seem to worry about anything. lol.

  4. Linda, looking at the pic of the house here reminded me of something I've been wanting to tell you since I was in Disney... Grass stays green year round in the northeast. Unless of course you have the wrong grass for your region. Anyway, mine is still very bright green even under all the snow I have. So it's better to go by the trees than the grass when trying to figure out the season/weather in pics.

  5. lucysmom:
    I know! I can't believe he's holding Hailey's money! And why she allowed him to. It sounded like she had a choice. She didn't say if she signed the check over to Jon or not.

    She also stated in the video that Kate Major herself spoke to Hailey and said she was going to pretend to be Jon's girlfriend because she could handle the heat that came along with it. So Kate Major lied to her.

    As for the house, it originally said $325k but it was later corrected to $300k. In that part of PA $325 is not a steal as far as I know. Especially in this economy. The further you are away from NYC out here to less a house costs (for the same square footage that is).

  6. Set in the Cleft said (in last post):
    The Gosselin's would get attention no matter where they went (without/before the show) because of the uniqueness of their family. And because those kids are so darn cute!

    Exactly. I do agree. But if they didn't do the show they would have never went out in public?

    I think all those children would have attracted attention anyway, maybe not as much as they do now that everyone knows them, but either way they would have people noticing them. But would they have never went anywhere alone with them because of people staring or stopping to talk to them?

    Actually, Kate goes out with the children now without a bodyguard and the TLC cameras. She did it before the filming stopped too. Yes there are paps there sometimes but it seems the general public pretty much leaves them alone.

    As the children get older it will hopefully be easier and not as "cute" and "interesting" to people to see 6 kids of the same age (the Dilley sextuplets lead normal lives).

    Maybe since so many people really want them to have their privacy they will respect that and not bother them in public. I know if I ran into them somewhere I wouldn't bother them. I would hope that "fans" wouldn't either, knowing they don't like it. I would also hope that the "naysayers" wouldn't either since they wanted the children to have their privacy so badly. So who knows?

    I do think that if they are not able to go out in public as a family without TLC cameras and bodyguards it just emphasises that they shouldn't have done the show and their children may never have a normal life because of it.

    While I don't blame them for doing the show for financial reasons, especially at the beginning, it probably wasn't the best decision for the well-being of their children, for both their safety and their privacy.

    And if they couldn't afford to raise their family without doing a tv show then they should have stuck with having just the twins and not chance having multiples (not even another set of twins) again. It was a risk they knew about and decided to take. How were they planning to support and raise them all?

    Set in the Cleft said:
    The only good reason for those cameras to be gone is because of what Jon has turned their family into - a paparazzi circus.

    What about the children's privacy? Even without the paparazzi they were famous and everything they did is out there for the world, their friends included, to see. I think the show was fine when the children were very young and it was about the challenges of raising multiple babies/toddlers. Now that they are older it's just different.

  7. I hate I missed her visit. I live here in Raleigh and have eaten at Finch's, but I was in meetings all day. Should be an interesting show, if it happens. She must be visiting "famous restaurants" because Finch's is a little "hole in the wall" that has been around for ages. Many of our legisators go their every day for breakfast before heading to the Capitol.

  8. Saying Goodbye To The Original Home: "Unlike their old house, the family now has PLENTY OF PRIVACY...."

    Sure they do, if you don't count Radar (and the other paparazzi) with their zoom lenses waiting at the fence line! Oh, and let's not forget Jon running out there to give them updates on anything they may have missed. What nerve!

  9. Baby Mama! I FINALLY posted my blog post on my Disney vacation. Whew!

    Anyway, I just wanted to let you know in case you, or anyone else, wants to check it out. It's very long but I put some info on there that might help you out for your next trip. Then I wrote a bit about our trip and then I posted a bunch of pics. It was very hard to narrow down 1,000 pics. lol.

    Click on my name to view by blog post...

  10. Let me just say that you post (so far, I haven't yet read the whole thing lol) is fantastic and for those that want to read it it's the second blog..I have stayed at Pop Century twice and it's my favorite among the Value Resorts. We only go in September to take advantage of the free meal plan (most of the time) because we always like to splurge on the different resorts. But could I tell you how disapointed I am that they no longer give you free table service as part of that meal plan! Im so confused, when we went last time
    , table service was included. Is this YET another thing they have dont to moderate and take away from the original meal plan?

    I will go back and read the rest of your post. I do agree that the rooms are small, but def. worth the price and the best resort for the bus route. The other Value Resorts you seem to be on that Disney Bus forever if you don't have your car!

    Also, since I haven't done FL recently since I took the CA trip this time, I can't believe that they would charge you for drinks. They never did that on the other plan, in fact last year, I remember we had a few snacks left over, and ran around before the flight getting things. I will be the first to complain about that when we go in April! I feel like waiting until Sept. again this year is pointless, if all they are doing for the free meal plans is giving quick services. The enjoyment for us was always what cool fancy restaurant was included that we can eat at for free! Our fav. "The Coral Reef" at The Living Seas & "Boma" at Animal Kingdom! Also the Princess meals in the Castle were included, and I heard since this year they too, were also deducted as being part of the plan..

    I feel that nothing good is still left at this point, hence we won't go through the trouble of taking my eldest out of school. I know it's free. but in the scheme of things it's really not since you are not getting a deal on the room. So disapointing!

    Dont doeget 10pm, Kate Gosselin interview on Barbara Walters tonight!

  11. I just watched the BW special. All I can say is THAT'S IT?!?!?!?!?!?

  12. Schmecky, I read your blog post about Disney, the pictures were great your girls are so cute. We are actually going for a week in January, the kids don't know yet, it is part of their Christmas present. I can't wait!

    Back to the Gosselins... I just finished watching Barbara Walters special, if I would have blinked I would have missed the interview with Kate, it seemed really short. I did however really like Kate's hair. Did anyone else catch them say she has a talk show in the works for the spring. I wonder if that is going to be the TLC show?

  13. The interview with Barbara was pretty much what I expected. I have always gotten the impression that she didn't care for Kate and that shone through tonight. I really like how Kate put it about how you really couldn't understand
    how positive the filming was for them unless you lived in their shoes. My hunch was right that Michelle Obama would be number one.

  14. Well with 10 people to be interviewed and 40 mins (after commercials)to do the interviews, each could only be about 4 mins.

    I don't think Barbara Walters dislikes Kate. She said on Letterman that she thinks Kate will be a star. I expect though that as a journalist she felt she had to ask the question about exploiting the kids.

  15. I have to agree with Schmecky. I also felt like the interview started and ended in five seconds. Then again, if they have to get through all those people, they couldn't very well spend tons of time with each person. As usual though, nothing new was answered. The preview of the special was hyping that Kate would be talking about "future projects". There might have been one sentence said on that whole topic and it revealed nothing.

    Linda - I too feel like you do and miss the Monday night fix of J&K plus 8. That said, I can't bring myself to watch the reruns. I feel like it would just make me want the show back more.

    Speaking of having the show back, I wonder what is cooking (no pun intended) with Kate and the filming in NC? Maybe this is the series she is doing with TLC although I was confused too because it didn't seem like it was organic or helath oriented. Maybe it's going to be like that show on the Food Channel with the two sisters that take a famous dish from somewhere and try to make it just as good using healthier options. It will be interesting to see what pans out - ugh, sorry, another pun. I don't know what's wrong with me today. lol Somehow I don't think the kids will be involved with the new show. She may mention them but I doubt they would make regular appearances. She has said as much when asked about this before. I am hoping though that there is possibly something else in the works too as more of a replacement for J&K+8.

    Once the mess with TLC is over, and the divorce is final, maybe we will see something else involving the kids. She keeps saying how upset they are at losing the show and I'm sure TLC knows the would get good viewership so they might be trying to make something work. Just a feeling I have.

    Regarding the whole Hailey and Jon thing, it just gets more bizarre by the second. How does Hailey call Jon a monster and then still live with him, and how does she give up her relationship with her mother over him? And was she really that surprised that he cheeated on her? Please!

    On a good note, I'm glad to see the old house is practically sold. What a burden it must have been having to pay two mortgages.

    Finally, a littel frivolous observation. It looks like Kate is doing something a little different with her hair. The front was a tad different and the back didn't have that spiky part.

  16. I just finished watching the Barbara Walters special. I must admit I was slightly dissapointed! With all the intreviews, infact. I guess when you only have one hour to intreview 10 people and x amount of commercials, your not left with much to watch! I'd have to agree with Kate and her statement about not judgeing what filming has done for her family until you've walked in her shoes and been in her home.

    I'm excitied to see what's in store for Kate in the spring. Something to look forward too and to get us all through this winter weather. haha.

    SchmeckyGirl- Thanks for the blog!! I almost asked for advise and tips before reading your blog but you covered it! Thanks!

    We are taking our children to Disneyland at the end of July next year. My husband will be at Camp Pendleton,Ca for training for 7 weeks over the summer! We figure what a great way to end the summer and spend some qaulity time as a complete family before work and school start!! We've been 3 times now, when we lived in Oceanside,Ca. We would drive up early in the morning and drive home at night. Instead of paying for a hotel. We were very blessed to receive a discount on tickets through the Marine Corps.

    One day we'll do Disney World when our youngest is old enough to remember. 5 or 6 years old sounds about right to me.

  17. Just read that so far Jon was a "no show" for his hearing today and that it started without him. Mark Heller spoke to reporters/paparazzi during a recess explaining that Jon had to drop the kids off at the bus stop this morning. I'm guessing it was not neccessary for him to attend, however why would you not want to hear first hand what you were being accused of?

  18. Radar online has a timeline of what has been happening in court, who knows how does state that Jon is suppose to be there this afternoon to be questioned and the Judge said his plan was to have this wrapped up by the end of the day.

  19. Schmeck - just saw your blog - didn't have time to read it fully, but we too are off to Disneyland here in CA for my daughter's 4th b-day in February. Your two daughters are just beautiful. A good combination of you and your husband. I'll read the whole Disney blog when I get a chance.

  20. Well, the inevitable happened. TLC won in court today for preliminary injunction relief against Jon (No surprise there). However, there will be more courtroom drama in the months ahead in this case, so it's not really completely over.

  21. Isn't it ironic that the night before TLC wins their injunction against Jon because of his unauthorized appearances and interviews, Kate is shown in a interview with Barbara Walters as one of her "Top 10" most fascinating people of 2009. All I can say is... just WOW!

  22. Jon not showing up this morning and TLC winning is no surprise to me. But, I have one question, did they the judge throw out the countersuit?

    As for Hailey, there is no excuse for her out right ignorance. I just have no explanation as to why she would still be living there. If that is even true. Who knows.

    Schmecky- The pictures were addorable.

  23. Yeah, that is definitely no surprise to me that TLC has won. I don't think it helped his case any not to show up either. Not that it might have made a difference but it sure sends a message that he just couldn't care enough to show up. I am sure more of the same will follow.

    One small note, I am appalled at all the typos in my last post. Oh my, I have to admit I was typing while half falling asleep at the computer so I didn't bother to spellcheck. Sorry!

  24. I think it is really something that after Jon made a big fuss about the time that Kate wasn't in court, he wasn't there. I also notice that all of the sudden he had an issue with taking the kids to the bus stop. He was perfectly able to miss it other times when he was off having fun. I am kind of surprised that Kate couldn't do it if she knew Jon had to be in court, but then again the communication doesn't work too well. Maybe his not being there was a legal move or planned for him to avoid paparazzi and make the case worse. I am glad to see that Radar has finally quit the bus stop harrassment.
    I just get tired of how Kate is singled out for child exploitation accusations, when TLC has a host of other families who are doing the same and worse and nobody says anything.

  25. Ok.. I dont really get it sometimes. Its fine when Kate doesn't show up to the hearing when she is not required to and when she is in LA instead but when Jon is not required to and is with his kids instead there as problem? This was a perliminary hearing and has no bearing on the actualy guilt or innocence of Jon. There is really no difference in the two situations, probably worse that Kate didn't show up since she started all the proceedings.

    Interesting that from the transcripts that the contract may be released with only the monetary figures redacted.

    Lucysmom, they both paid for the mortgage on the second house as well as every other family expense. Any profit from the sale would be split between them once the divorce is finalized.

    Linda, I know you posted awhile ago about it but I've had trouble posting lately. Jon may find it difficult to find work in television after his breach of contract suit but anyone without an obvious bias against Jon would say that Jon did legally breach the contract but how TLC was treating Jon was morally wrong, in not letting him speak out at all and not letting him do other television appearances while letting Kate do any she wants. You can only hit someone so many times while their down before they'll fight back.

  26. I can't believe Jon didn't show up for court. Then again I do because it could have been worse with him there. It had to be at the advice of his lawyer. I can't see them wanting Jon to be put under oath. And would Jon really be good on the stand? He can't even get a story straight with the paps.

    Since Jon can't do any more media appearances does this mean he is still under contract with TLC and getting paid? I can't believe he didn't just continue with his contract and just paid for nothing, especially since he still could have stopped them from filming his children if that's what he really wanted.

    Also, they said they still only make $22,000 an episode with their contractnow! Is that true??? That's highway robbery! I can't believe Jon and Kate would agree to that when they renewed their contract. Makes no sense to me since they were the biggest show on TLC.

  27. I just heard an interview Hailey did (it's on Perez Hilton's site) and when the guy asked her if she really called Jon Gosselin a monster she had the nerve to say that it was taken out of context. Then she said she didn't want to discuss the past and you can "google it" to see what she said. Even if she said "he became a monster" what's the difference? How was it taken out of context? She acted like she shouldn't have said it or didn't mean it the way it sounded.

    THEN she had the nerve to say she will always be there for him. lol.

    Why are all the people that say they will always be there for him screwing him left and right with their comments?

    I understand that Jon screwed them all first etc but then why say you'll be there for him? Either bash him and have nothing to do with him ever again, or shut up and be there for him.

    A referee for girl on girl wrestling? Goodness gracious. What is she doing with her life? She said she just wanted her life back and wants out of the spotlight then she goes and agrees to do that? She's taking the same route as Jon is with the low class offers... anything to stay in the media. I think they all got a taste of being famous and will now do anything they can to stay in the public eye. I just don't get it.

  28. Sorry to be OT but thanks everyone for your comments on my blog, especially about my girls! I didn't want to bring it up here again but I didn't want to leave the nice comments unacknowledged. Sorry Baby Mama. :)

  29. MosbiusDesigns,
    Yes, they both contributed to the family bills but Kate, being the family bookkeeper and writing the checks is closer to the financial situation including the worries that go along with it. That was the point I was trying to make.

    Also, all the comments regarding Jon not showing up is only because of HIS hypocritical comments HE made about her not showing up for court.

    And as far as TLC not approving Jon's public appearances, compared to Kate, he had already proven to be a trash-talker and an embarrasment to the show's image. Why be a glutton for more punishment on their part?

  30. SchmeckyGirl,
    So true about your observations on Hailey. She is one very confused girl; co-dependant and needy as well. I think Jon, unintentionally or not, took advantage of her immaturity and both ended up in a very messy tangle.

  31. MosbiusDesigns,

    I totally agree with you. I think it is unfair that there is always a double standard as to what is right or wrong when it's Jon and not Kate.

    Along with what you've said about his not appearing in court and TLC controlling his media career, there is also what the TLC lawyers said about him being allowed to go back to IT work.

    Why is it that people feel Kate can't go back to nursing because it won't pay enough and she's too famous and now that she's had a taste of media work and likes it she should be able to continue on that path. Yes, that may all be true, but to be fair, why can't that also be true for Jon?

    It's Jon's decision if he wants to do sleazy reality tv or gossip shows, especially after his contract is up. People feel he shouldn't be allowed to because he didn't honor his contract and should be punished for it.

    I think that's up to the networks to decide if they want to take that risk and up to the viewers to decide if they want to watch it. I know I wouldn't but maybe countless others wood. To blackball someone from a television career and an income to support his family is just wrong.

    Look at Michael Vick. He abused and tortured live animals and he's back to playing professional football on TV. You can't even compare their actions.

    And TLC saying Jon sullied their reputation??? I think Toddlers and Tiaras did that already.

  32. Mobius- The difference between Jon not being at court is as follows.
    Jon was the defendent in both cases. Kate was the plaintiff in her case. The defendents have to show up or in most cases there is an automatic judgement. I don't feel he had to show up for the second court appearence between him and Kate as he complied and paid back the money. Kate did not have to show because she complied and issued her proof well in advance of the scheduled date. Jon on the other hand paid the remaining restitution the morning of the court hearing.
    If she had been the there the headlines would have read, "Terrible money hungry Kate sits with a smug look on her face as the Judge strips poor abused broke Jon of his last few dollars".

    Which brings me to another point Jon has lied about, but I am sure you have an excuse for this also. If they in fact make $22,000 per episode for 43 episodes (I am assuming this is the amount of the prior contract, before the new one was signed, Because, I would guess they have not been paid in full on the new contract), that equalls $946,000.00. So, Jon stated when he took the money he was taking his paycheck. If that is the case his part was only $94,600.00. So, what is the excuse for the extra $100,000.00?
    There is no excuse except he is a liar. Plain and simple.

  33. MosbiusDesigns - The simple difference is that Kate asked for permission before doing guest shots elsewhere, and Jon did not. An obvious difference is that Kate is articulate and maintains the TLC line, and Jon does not. A third difference would be that "if you don't like the terms of the contract and have no intention of honoring them" then don't be stupid and sign the contract. If you breach the contract you signed, then you stand to lose everything. A last difference would be that Kate says the same thing day after day; Jon's version of things depends on the minute or the day - he constantly contradicts himself.

    Support Jon all you wish. He truly needs people who will support him no matter what he does or whom he screws over. I no longer choose to be one of them. I do continue to pray for him and wish him well. However, I think he has a basic problem with not being the brightest lightbulb in the box and I'm not sure that's something that can be overcome. He has the worst judgement in the world in making decisions and choosing friends and it's coming back to haunt him.

    I sure as heck would not go looking for a loyal friend in a cocktail bar, and it's the very last place that I'd go looking for worker to care for my precious children. And that is but one of the many stupid things he's done.

    Yep, this is America and you can do what you want (most of the time.) If you sign a contract and then don't want to pay, you can walk away from your house, your car, whatever. Of course you're going to lose it if you don't pay, but that's your decision. BUT, if you do, you aren't going to be able to get another loan for a home, a car, or whatever you walked away from because you are considered irresponsible and untrustworthy. It's the same with business contracts.

    I look at Jon now and just shake my head. He's paying for an idiot attorney (Heller) to go to court in MD when he can't practice there (and they wouldn't even let Heller sit at the table.) I personally don't think Jon would be in the mess he's in now if he hadn't been listening to the advice of the Heller duo telling him that TLC would never do anything to him and he could do what he wanted.

    I also think that the court issue doesn't really matter whether Jon was there or not. It's my understanding that Jon's reps had said he'd be in court and TLC could ask him questions there. That he said he'd be there and didn't show probably isn't that big a deal. No matter, it just means that they'll depose him in NY, or PA, or wherever he is at the moment.

    All the guy had to do was sit tight, wait until the contract ended, do nothing, and still get the same amount of money. Why didn't he? Because that was an old contract and the Hellers couldn't get the percentage of it; that would go to Jon's former manager. They could only make money off new deals. Thus, their terrible advice to Jon to ignore the TLC contract. They weren't willing to wait. And in the end? They screwed him over and made him look like the douche bag of the world. Fat chance of getting hired now?

  34. "I know I wouldn't but maybe countless others wood." Um uh. Ooops. Typo! WOULD!!!

  35. Linda, I agree that Jon probably did all he did against his contract at the advice of his attorney and new manager, the Hellers, and most likely with selfish motives.

    I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't think TLC would sue Jon, etc but they are lawyers and took the chance at Jon's expense. Well theirs too if he loses his income and can't pay them.

    I wonder how they expect to get paid and if they realize they won't if they will drop him.

    I don't agree though that TLC would have allowed Jon to do anything aside from their show even if he asked for permission. I don't think they tried to work with him on it because they didn't want him to have a voice in the media. I don't think they would have let Jon do anything he was offered.

    Jon said (if you believe him) that once he started going out and doing what he wanted because his marriage was technically over in January, that TLC got someone to follow him and try to control him and he was basically under house arrest. What kind of life is that? Should TLC be able to own his life because he no longer fits the "image" of their "reality" show?

    Yes, Jon made bad decisions that reflected poorly on the show, but ya know what, that was his reality. He no longer wanted to be "Jon from Jon and Kate Plus Eight" because that Jon no longer existed. Kate changed and he changed. Kate's changes just coincided with TLCs "reality" for the "image" they had for the Gosselins. Jon no longer wanted to go along with the farce they created since around October 2009. I don't blame him.

    I do feel that Jon should have continued under his contract just being the Jon he wanted to be on the show whether TLC liked it or not until TLC realized it wasn't working and ended his contract or bought him out, etc. And since you brought it up, I agree that the Hellers had a lot to do with it.

    But who knows? Maybe TLC will lose the lawsuit and Jon will win his... Jon only has to shut up until their court date in April. He hasn't been speaking or doing anything media wise lately anyway.

    Then maybe Jon will get a new lawyer that will help him sue the Hellers for all the bad advise they gave him. lol.

  36. Linda I totally agree about the Hellers and their negative impact on Jon's life. Jon also could have went to court to have his contract voided, either because he could show that it was so inappropriate or that his life circumstances had changed so much that it didn't fit. TLC might have settled with him at that point and he could have then done other things without a tarnished reputation as far as theI business matters are concerned. I wonder if a lot of his issues with his TLC contract stem from his anger toward Kate. The contract was important to Kate and now he has the power that he didn't feel he had back then and he wants to take from her.

  37. I read the part two of the Imperfect Women interview, and they did a great job. At times, I wanted to laugh my head off, shake sense into Jon, and cry for him all at the same time. I don't think he lies on purpose, but he really can't keep what he says straight from one minute to the next. I really think that they advised him not to come to court because it would hurt his case with him contradicting himself all of the time. I also think his relationship with Hailey is very toxic, not just to her, but to him as well. I am happy for him that he wants to stop smoking, I hope he does.

  38. Shelly, I really don't know where you're getting your numbers from... There was 23 episodes in season 5 and 41 episodes in season 4, 15 of which were hour long episodes. Source:

    So in total 79 thirty minutes episodes (I counted hour long episodes as two), assuming $22,500 per episode that is $1,777,500 and a tenth of which is $177,500. IIRC Jon was ordered to return approximately that same amount by the court, which I'm going to assume is the correct amount he actually withdrew.

    Linda, I do not believe I am supporting Jon no matter, I'm in fact I'm a lot more measured then people on here towards Kate. What I said was Jon was in fact legally wrong in his breach of contract but it was morally wrong on TLCs part to muzzle one parent while supporting the other parent to speak to anyone they wish. TLC knew Jon was going to do the E! interview, why couldn't they simply authorize him to do so? If this is truly the "realest reality show on television" TLC shouldn't be able to dictate the way a person acts or speaks. How can one call this a documentary television when the people are so constrained. Its not illegal to be a liar, jerk or womanizer, might make him look bad but if its truly a documentary Jon can act however he wants. Its supposed to be "their life" not a the life TLC wants it to be.

    Jon was not required to be the court session just like Kate was not required to be at the court session. It was simply a preliminary hearing, and not the actual trial. Everyone complains he doesn't spend time with his kids, then when he does now he's in the wrong? Pretty well a lose lose situation for Jon.

  39. Does anyone remember the timeline as far as media appearances go? Didn't Jon wait until after Kate went on Larry King Live and the Today Show before he went on Larry King and The Insider, etc?

    I know he was talking to the paps, but as far as PAID appearances on "rival networks" on TV didn't he only go on them to "defend himself" against what was being said about him by Kate on their show and in her media appearances, and also by extension TLC?

    I really can't remember the timeline. Anyone? Linda The Researcher? LOL. ;)

  40. Jessica~ Thanks for the posts and keeping me updated on the Radar Online info. I updated this post to include the info and a link of the video if anyone wanted ot see it. If it wasn't necessary for Jon to attend that's one thing, but to make some crappy excuse why he wasn't there was another. It just sounded lame. I felt like they were shoving down peoples throats that hes such a "dedicated" dad, he had no time for measly little court hearings. Let's face it, we all knew how this was going to go. I does not look good for Jon.....

  41. This is the best I came come up with. They agreed on June 25th to no public statements about each other for 45 days.
    Kate (not including book tour and womens conferences):
    Today Show, May 7th, August 10th, October 5th, 2009
    People Magazine, May 20th, July 6th, August 24th,
    The View Sept 14th, 15th and 18th
    Ellen, October 28th
    Larry King, August 25th

    Jon :
    People Magazine June 5th
    Chris Cuomo, GMA September, 8th
    ET, October 2nd,5th,6th, November 4th,
    The Insider October 2nd,5th, November 9th
    Larry King Live, October 1st
    E! News August 10th (Canceled)
    In Touch Weekly August 17th, 2009
    Popeater, October 9th, 2009

  42. Mobius, Jon's name as also on Multiple Blessings as an authour which should entitle him to some of the proceeds.

  43. Mobius- I took 43 episodes for part of last year and the new ones this year. As I am sure they are paid in installments. I would not imagine that TLC pays up front for the entire season. 43 X $22,000.00 (I took off $500.00 per episode for agent fees, which I am sure is very low)= $946,000.00. Divided by ten is $94,600.00, Thats were I am getting the number from. I am not adding 2 seasons together to come up with a suitable number so Jon looks better.

  44. I agree with those who posted that it was NOT a big deal that Jon was not in court. The only problem I have with his not showing up is that Jon's jerk of an attorney made a field day of ragging on Kate when she didn't show up to a hearing she did not need to attend. The hypocracy is astounding but I do think Jon is getting awful representation by the Hellers.

    I don't agree that TLC has been morally wrong in it's dealings with the Gosselins at all. I doubt they pay much more than that to any of their on air personalities. Remember ratings average about 2 million. That does not bring in THAT much in advertising dollars.

    Also there were many other benefits that the family accrued. All of the trips and products given for advertising purposes indicate that the actual compensation received was much higher than the mere salary figures.

    As for Jon and Kate, it strikes me as immature to think of it as "she gets to do it, so it he does to." The show did have a brand and a image. Jon and Kate both knew what that brand and image was when they signed the most recent contract. If they wanted a no strings attached documentary, they should have kept renumeration at $5000 per episode with 10-15 episodes a season.

    The TLC brand is a wholesome one with family oriented shows. It is not an MTV type network and I can totally see why they would would have a morals clause in the contract and give the person honoring the morals clause more leeway regarding interviews than the person not honoring th morals clause.

    The bottom line is Jon Goseelin signed the contract knowing the terms of it when he signed. Unlike Kate, he was a loose canon detracting from their product not enhancing it.

    When the Hellers got involved, the violations escalated from morals clause violations to Jon getting paid by others to trash Kate, TLC and the show. The Hellers convinced Jon he could get away with violating the contract because TLC would not want to face the "court of public opinion" and would back down.

    I respect that TLC did not back down and decided to try it a court of law where all other contract violations are tried.

    Heller revealed that Jon's motivates in getting the children off television were far from the children's best interests when he said that he expects that TLC will want to settle soon to get the children back on TV. Heller knows Jon will not win his countersuit and knows the only way for him or Jon to salvage a pay day is to try for settlement.

    I hope TLC does not settle as much as I enjoyed the show. Heller has been slime throughout this and has done Jon a huge disservice. But I don't see anyone having the happy ending Heller predicts, if Jon's tantrums succeed.

  45. Par, you said it all... on every ... single ... point.

  46. I am here and have been reading...just don't have a comment because every one has been saying it all for me. I agree with Tashapork: I laughed,shook my head with disbelief and the prayed the some day Jon will open his eyes when I read the IW interview.

  47. I just read the second part of Jon's inteview at IW and all I can say is WOW...I now have a headache trying to figure out which "truth" Jon is trying to sell. I know he constantly changes his story, but you would think he would try to not contradict himself in the same interview?

  48. PAR said:
    The TLC brand is a wholesome one with family oriented shows.

    American Chopper, Miami Ink, LA Ink and the worst show on TV, Toddlers and Tiaras, are not exactly "wholesome family oriented shows". Maybe Jon and Kate Plus 8 was (if you overlook the way Kate spoke to her husband).

    However, my issue is if their marriage was truly over like they claim it was "some time last year" then the show was no longer the reality of their lives. Just because they were contracted for a "wholesome" show with a certain image doesn't make it right for them to pretend that's what it still is.

    Their circumstances and lives changed in ways they didn't expect when they signed on for the show. I understand they signed a contract, but since they were separated in real life, does the contract mean they have to go on pretending like they are still happily married?

    Maybe Kate could have went on pretending and keeping up appearances forever, but maybe Jon just couldn't. How long can someone live like that?

    I'm not excusing Jon's poor decisions, but the truth was bound to come out some time. Maybe if Kate and Jon and TLC had been more honest about their marrital problems things would have been different. Things wouldn't have been as "scandalous" and "shocking" and escalated so quickly if people knew what was really going on in their marriage and family life.

    Both Jon and Kate said their marriage was over for a long time, "some time last year". Jon says October, Kate isn't as specific, so even if it was in December, they went a few months trying to cover it up. I don't think it's because they were trying to work out their marriage and wanted privacy, because they never said they were, they said it was over.

    I think they didn't want to mess with the TLC brand of their show. Jon and Kate Plus 8, as we knew it and loved it, was over a long time ago... even before Jon was seen out and about doing things that didn't fit in with their brand, we just didn't know it.

  49. PAR said:
    Heller revealed that Jon's motivates in getting the children off television were far from the children's best interests when he said that he expects that TLC will want to settle soon to get the children back on TV. Heller knows Jon will not win his countersuit and knows the only way for him or Jon to salvage a pay day is to try for settlement.

    I think we've all believed that Jon's motives for stopping TLC from filming his children were suspect. I for one didn't care what his motives were, because I felt it was best for the children.

    I also think it would have been a brilliant move had Jon continued filming the show himself and stuck to his contract.

    I think Jon saying that he was stopping TLC from filming his children because it wasn't healthy for them "because they are going through a divorce" showed that there was always the chance he would let them film again, once the divorce was over.

    I don't see how Jon can let them film his children now though, after his "pedophile" comments.

    I'm curious to see how the lawsuits (or settlements) affect the filming of the children in the future. I'm also curious how the PA Labor Dept investigation will affect their filming.

  50. PAR, I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, I agree with a lot of it, I just see the flip side of the argument too.

    I don't think the whole TLC/Jon Gosselin saga is black and white or right and wrong. I definitely see the argument that they signed a legal contract and TLC has to do what is in their best interest as a network, etc. I also see why TLC would allow Kate and not Jon to do interviews. I just feel sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that have to be taken into consideration. Even if not from a legal standpoint, at least a moral standpoint.

  51. MosbiusDesigns - I guess I wasn't articulate enough so I'll try again.

    Personally, I am not opposed to Jon doing anything, and I do mean anything that his little heart desires AFTER the contract ends. Until then, I expect him to be responsible and follow the terms of his contract.

    Of course, I can't imagine why they would do it, BUT the contract he signed with TLC gives them the right to renew for another full year. I guess if they really wanted to teach him a lesson, they could renew it (and be completely within their rights) and then Jon could not do other TV interviews, gigs, etc. unless TLC approved them. Then they'd have to pay him but they could keep him off the air.

    Again, personally I can't imagine any TV offers other than sleezoid type things but if somebody wants to offer him a job in TV land, I certainly have no objection as long as it comes AFTER the end of the contract.

    The public then decides whether or not to watch him. By turning off the channel you vote loudly and clearly. Of course, I guess he could get the Trolls to send tons of email to stations and that might help. Again, personally I think they have a number of people who post over and over using different names (because they say the same things using the same wording and sometimes the same spelling errors.) But, that's just my opinion.

    I would hope that he'd have enough brains to fire both of the Hellers because I think they've screwed him over royally. Why on earth he'd pay the Heller attorney for legal advice is beyond me. The idiot can't practice in PA (for the divorce suit) and he can't practice in MD (for the TLC suit.) To my knowledge, nobody is suing Jon in NY (yet) where Heller can practice. It's a complete waste of money for Heller to traipse off to those locales when he can't legally represent Jon there. I guess that's too much to wish for (Jon waking up and realizing he needs to fire them.)

    I think a suit that Jon would have a good chance of winning is if he filed suit against Heller for the abominable legal advice he's given Jon. When a client has a binding contract and Heller is aware of the terms, I think it's unconscionable for him, as an officer of the court, to advice Jon to intentionally violate it. If you think it is unfair, then bring suit to change the terms or have the brains to wait until it is over. I think Jon would have a great chance of winning this suit.

  52. Schmeckygirl, I agree with what you are saying about extenuating circumstances getting in the way of a contract. I do wonder, and I am sure it will come out in the proceedings, if Jon attempted to go through the proper channels to get his issues resolved. If that didn't work, he could have taken TLC to court to show how his circumstances had changed and why his contract needed to be voided or ammended so he could do Divorced Dad's club or what ever. I really think it wouldn't have gone that far and TLC probably would have settled and worked with him. I also think if he went that route he would have had a pretty good chance of winning because until he really started trashing himself, there was a lot of sympathy toward him even after affair allegations and the contract was written while they were in this together which is not the case. I really think he was looking for a more masculine, American Chopper type show and if he had gone about it correctly he probably would have gotten it. Having said that I really don't think Jon's time on the Insider has been good for anyone but the Insider. I think they used him and done more harm for him than the good of what they paid him.
    I hope everybody is having a nice holiday season and not letting the "stuff" and chores of the holiday season bog them down so they don't enjoy it.

  53. I understand they signed a contract, but since they were separated in real life, does the contract mean they have to go on pretending like they are still happily married? ...
    Maybe Kate could have went on pretending and keeping up appearances forever, but maybe Jon just couldn't. How long can someone live like that?
    First of all, the current contract was signed in April or May 2008. This was when Kate was on the book tours and Jon was already miserable about being stuck home with the kids. So obviously the mature thing to do would be to seek other employment and not sign the contract. But even if Jon could not foresee the marriage falling apart within the next 6 months or his becoming unhappy with the filming, we aren't talking about huge amounts of time.

    Even if we go by Jon's clock that Kate "ended" the marriage in Oct of 2008, he was going out by January 2009. He was caught by the paparazzi in March 2009. I am sorry but 3-6 months is not a long time.

    We also know when the contract ends. Jon could have waited until May 2010 to start dating publicly and not violated his contract at all. That is less than 2 years --- not all that long. And the mature thing to do in that time would have been to plan how he was going to help support his children post-reality show.


    I just feel sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that have to be taken into consideration.
    What extenuating circumstances? I don't see how anyone can argue that Jon's way of handling the situation was the right one.

  54. Par, the extenuating circumstances being that Jon and Kate were actually no longer "Jon and Kate". They started having problems BEFORE the end of season 4. Jon didn't want to renew the contract but Kate did. Take that all the way through to Oct 2006 and that's six months already. Then you want to add another six to eighteen months for them to act like a happily married couple for the sake of a "reality" TV show. I'm sorry but I could never live a lie for that long. I think that's a lot to ask of anyone. I personally feel the marriage ending kinda nullified the whole Jon and Kate contract simply because they are no longer "Jon and Kate". Maybe if TLC didn't try to continue the show under the guise of a married couple still together and showed it for what it really was it would have worked out better for them all.

  55. Shelly, I'm assuming its ok to take episodes arbitrarily to bash Jon then?

    Reality television is one of the least expensive shows to produce. The freebies the Gosselins received such as trips, play houses are for the most part paid for by the advertisers. You don't think ABC pays Sears for all the freebies on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition? Jon and Kate plus 8 averaged around 3-4 million per episode with a high of 10 million. Which are huge numbers for cable TV. Advertisements during their show were definitely going for a premium price.

    Look at other cable shows, Jon Stewart highest ratings are a little over 2 million. His salary is 1.5 million a year. Looking for a show with comparable ratings, the Nip/Tuck actors receive $125,000 per episode. The $22,500 per episode is definitely not a "substantial" amount for the whole family, generating most of the channels profits.

    TLC's "brand" they wanted to portray was the one of a single mother struggling raise eight children after their father left them. Because Jon felt he was being portrayed poorly, he should be allowed to speak up. Saying Jon ruined TLC's wholesome image is like saying Tiger Woods ruined Nike's image.

    I don't want to nitpick at details but the contract was signed in June 2008 (Dated April 28th, 2008) and it ends in February 2010. Kate's Multiple Blessings book tour began October 2008.

    Extenuating circumstances? I'm pretty sure its been proven many times on here that there is always circumstances to justify anything, including meltdowns, comments, and actions.

  56. I agree with PAR, well said. Linda: you are so wise!
    I also want to add that Jon once again has changed his story: to say now that the marriage was really over in January...hmmm...didn't he say it was over in May, or was it March? He can't even stick to one story. So perhaps there is this period of time (let's say, between Jan and June) where TLC and Kate thoguht that things would work out with Jon and Kate's marriage. Afterall, who could have really predicted that the father of eight very young children would one day just walk out of their daily lives? Or that he would take away the sole source of income for these kids? So while Kate and TLC was waiting for Jon to get his act together...he just disengaged...and we all know the rest...the paps wouldn't have pursued him if wasn't doing anything wrong.
    Ego, greed,'s just wrong to do that to your kids:, taking away their sole cource of income (and I mean income, do not savings) whether you make $22,000 an episode or $22,000 a year, it's wrong. You brought the kids into this world, it's your job to support them.

    A smart person would have honored the contract, kept their mouth shut, and not put their kids through the public distress.

  57. Mom of Three said:

    A smart person would have honored the contract, kept their mouth shut, and not put their kids through the public distress.


    I think Jon has made it perfectly clear he is not a smart person. As Jon says, actions speak louder than words. Everything he has done shows his true inner person.

    He's a whiner, unintelligent, IMHO lazy and unmotivated and clearly very selfish.

    When this is said and done he will most likely be financially embarrassed. The lawsuit will take away some of his earnings. He better save those diamond studs, they can be hocked......

    I think he'll get what he wants....a 9-5 job. I am not interested in watching him on TV. Even the trolls will get tired of him, he says the same things over and over. He simply changes dates/times to meet whatever goal he has that day. It's more than boring and ridiculous.

  58. They started having problems BEFORE the end of season 4. Jon didn't want to renew the contract but Kate did.

    The end of season 4 was aired in April or May of 2009. Season 5 started in June of 2009. There was no doubt they were having problems then ... we had already seen the bar hopping and Deanna pictures.

    So the contract signing predated that by almost a year. Even going by Jon saying Kate came to him in October 08 out of the blue saying she didn't want to be married puts the contract signing 4 months earlier then the end of the marriage. There is no indication that he did not want to sign the contract in June 2008.

    In August of 08, they filmed the Hawaii vow renewal (aired in November 08). I honestly believe that Jon was totally on board with the filming at least through the trip to Hawaii. He loved that trip and seeing his mother's family.

    Frankly, I think the problems really started around Jon being unhappy stuck at home with the kids while Kate traveled promoting the book and the show. He has said things about not liking being home all day everyday with kids and about Kate out their traveling with the bodyguard and eating lobster while he was stuck at home.

    Kate said in People Magazine article last June (2009) that she knew Jon was unhappy being home and she suggested he get a part time job, or volunteer, or go back to school. We know he did none of those things. I also think alot off the activities last year were efforts to make Jon content with being home .... they bought the new house in October 08. It struck me as that house was chosen for Jon - Kate may have wanted a much bigger house but she had no need for all that land (clearly an indoor girl and we have only seen her in the side yard, on the driveway, and in the pool area). I was always astounded that Kate went along with getting the dogs --- I think that was for Jon as well. Kate was "giving" in on lots of things in an attempt to make Jon happy at home and with the show while she traveled. Of course, there were two things she would not give up - the traveling and the show.

    I believe she gave up trying to make Jon happy with the situation and asked why she married him as he stated. And that was the beginning of the end.

    So what is the right thing to do when you are miserable and have 18+ months on your contract to go? Well, I would have had a ton of respect for Jon if he had figured out a way to help support the family without the show, if he had said no to the purchase of a $1.1 million home knowing how rocky things were, if he had gone to TLC and said "I know we have a contract but I can't live a lie. Let's figure out how to restructure the show." If he had done that and TLC refused, I might agree with you Schmeckygirl.

  59. It would be great if this whole mess was settled sooner, then later! Heller said with that smerk on his face that there would be a happy ending. I am assuming he was talking about TLC filming the children???? I hope not. Jon better not do that IMO.
    The children have been adjusting to not having the crew around, so I hope they don't get even more confused by putting them back on the air. They need both parents to be on an even kneel to get through this divorce.
    Jon needs to get help from a child councilor, to learn how to handle the emotions of Mady and Cara. Those girls being the oldest are going to require the most help. JMO.

  60. Oh MY Gosh Mobius. Are you kidding me? I'm not the one adding several seasons together to make a suitable number to justify Jon's actions.Talk about one sided.

    If you look back on past postings from the old blog you would realize(but, I don't care if you do) that when the cheating allegations, partying, and the other stupid stuff he did started to break, I defended him till the end. I did not believe for a second that Jon would do this. I thought he was better than that. But, Jon not the paps have shown his true colors. Oh sure the paps have helped him look like an idiot because they feed on the jackass.

    This site was a J&K fan site. We all stood up against the trolls because they used to bash both J&K. Not until Jon started his new life because his twenties were wasted (his words, not mine), did any of us say a bad word against him.

  61. MosbiusDesigns,
    I forgot to say Thank You for the timeline! So Thank you!

  62. Mom of Three said...
    I also want to add that Jon once again has changed his story: to say now that the marriage was really over in January...hmmm...didn't he say it was over in May, or was it March? He can't even stick to one story.

    From what I remember Jon always said the marriage ended in October 2008. He said Kate ended it and he wanted to go for marriage counseling, she didn't. He also stated somewhere that they hadn't been intimate since August 2008. Kate herself said the marriage was over "some time last year".

    If the marriage was over anytime in 2008 then it was over in January 2008 too. I think Jan 2008 may have been when he knew there was 100% no going back and they were going to start living separate lives. They just had to figure out how to keep it from the rest of the world and still film. Remember Jon living about the garage and "taking care of his mother" for a while. All lies by TLC, Kate and Jon to cover up their failed marriage.

    May 2009 is when they were legally separated, as far as I recall, and they started divorce proceedings in June. Again, I'm not sure of the timeline but I think that'w what I recall.

    Part of the problem was the show was still airing but the footage wasn't matching up with what we all already knew from the media. Even though they tried to edit things in afterwards it was obvious they were covering up the separation when they were explaining why they weren't being filmed together.

    As far as I remember the first episode where they were more honest about the separation was when Kate went to Bald Head Island. But even then they had originally edited it to make it look like Jon had to stay home while the kitchen was being renovated. They did a patch job afterwards to make it more in line with the media coverage.

    If my timeline is off, I welcome any corrections because I only did it off the top of my head, I didn't look anything up online.

  63. Thought you all may enjoy this,

  64. Shelly, counting in seasons makes a lot more sense then choosing a number including parts of separate seasons and going with that. Why not 42? 44?

    PAR said...
    "There is no indication that he did not want to sign the contract in June 2008."
    ------------------------------------------------- from 3:29 on (Season 4 Finale)

    Seeing that we're making assumptions that Kate did everything for Jon from the house to the dogs without knowing what truly was going on. Can we assume that Jon did ask to get out of it? or objected to the big house? Jon stopping going to the churches and on the book tours. One of the main reasons could of been him being uncomfortable promoting a shame. Just because you believe something doesn't mean its true and that people who don't agree with you are completely wrong, when there is room for interpretation.

    #1caregiver, both parents need to see a child councilor to how to deal with the children, especially the Mady and Cara. at 40:20

    Mom of Three, how could anyone believe that the show would go on forever? This should not of been their sole source of income and its BOTH parents fault for it. The show was supposed to allow them to have both parents home all day and that was deemed their "work". This clearly wasn't true, since their mother was gone for a large part of the time promoting her book and when she came back Jon left. Its the parents job to support their children but that job shouldn't be detrimental to the children.

    SchemckyGirl, Do you mean January 2009? You're statement doesn't make sense if you mean January 2008.

  65. 39thandbroadway~ Nice site! I will give it a plug and post the article relating to Jon:

    "This year we had a plethora of celebrities proving to be PR nightmares for fashion brands. One of the most publicized of the year is, father of eight and reality star, Jon Gosselin. Jon is now as famous for his breeding ability, as his love of Ed Hardy T-shirts. For some unknown reason designer Christian Audigier decided that Jon would be a good face for his Ed Hardy brand and even flew him overseas to discuss Gosselin’s design ideas. At the time, the press Gosselin was receiving was daily, if not hourly, and the Ed Hardy t-shirts he was sporting insured the brand constant media coverage. However, as Gosselin turned from America’s #1 dad to America’s #1 douche bag, he took the Ed Hardy name down with him. The brand became the butt of a national joke. Ed Hardy is now synonymous with the unemployed, middle-aged, overweight, media whore, that is Jon Gosselin (along with the desperate, aging, MILF’s who adore him). While Christian certainly got brand recognition from millions who had never heard of Ed Hardy before, was the now tarnished brand image worth all of the attention? Overall, has the Ed Hardy brand seen a rise or decline in US sales since the Gosselin debacle?"

  66. great blog!!!!! I added it to my reader. :)

  67. MobiusDesigns, I know what Jon said on the season 4 finale. That was almost a year after he signed the contract.

    The lastest version of the contract with TLC was signed in June 2008. Season 4 ended March 2009.

    These are the last 5 episodes of season 4.

    37 89 "Bye Old House" March 2, 2009 (2009-03-02)

    38 90 "Trip to the Vet" March 9, 2009 (2009-03-09)

    39 91 "Slopes, Sleds, and Sesame" March 16, 2009 (2009-03-16)

    40 92 "B-Ball & More" March 23, 2009 (2009-03-23)

    41 93 "Family Outing" March 23, 2009 (2009-03-23)

    I believe that last one was the one you linked to when Jon said he did not want to continue filming. March 2009 - filmed sometime between Jan - Mar 2009 when we now know the marriage was on the rocks and when the tabloid frenzy was starting.

    So what was being shown when Jon signed the contract in June 2008? Season 3 ended that month and season 4 started.

    At contract signing time in 2008, Jodi and Kevin were still on the show. The episode with Jon's hair transplant was first shown that month as was the episode when Jon took the boys to the golf course and the Gosselin family movie night episode.

    You can assume anything you might but I am not going to make the same assumptions because you say so. Jon's behavior has been passive-aggressive for a long time -- we saw that on the show. Given his behavior that we witnessed in the tabloids, I find it more reasonable to assume that Jon took a passive-aggressive stance with TLC too.

    BTW, I have never said people who don't agree with me are completely wrong. But I am also going to state what I believe just as you do.

  68. OK Mobius. You think what you want. I am sure anybody else that read what I wrote can understand what I am saying. You choose not to. So, thats fine. As far as I am concerned the discussion with you is over.

    Par- You took the words right out of my mouth. Great post!!!!!!!!

  69. Dear Mosbius D, Could you please explain to me what I was supposed to find on that youtube site? I just got lost for more then 20 minutes , looking for something about counciling for J&K. Yes, you are right again, I should have said both parents need help. OPPS!
    Now I did watch a religous guy do his tape. Not sure what to say about his speech: By Soundendurance, Considering the circumstances. Also, some tunes that are not worth mentioning.
    So just tell me what you meant cause I must have got lost..................LOL

    Hi Baby Mama, Don't get stressed all out over the Holidays. Just enjoy your children because they grow up so fast. cu

  70. I am sorry Jon had no problem with going ahead with buying the house. How did he think that they were going to pay for it, if it were not for the continuation of the show. There are too many excuses being made for him, even if he is not the brightest bulb in the box. And whether they started realizing that they were having marital problems in October of 2008 or in January of 2009, as a father of eight, you treat your family with respect. Jon did none of that and there is no way to condone his actions. It is just plain ridiculous.

  71. Shelly, sometimes you just need to scroll, scroll, scroll. Some people still try to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Right Linda?
    Hope everyone is taking some time to enjoy the Holidays...they will be over in the blink of an eye. (and the only thing left will be the credit card bills) Ha.Ha.

  72. I've debated about posting the following comments. I just hate opening a can of squirming worms. But...

    I really don't think it's important when Jon quit loving Kate or vice versa. Was it October 09, January 09, March 09, or May 09?

    I could site all kinds of examples: Jon said October 09 that Kate quit loving him. But, then you have the Utah TV interview in January 09 (posted on BabyMama's older blog) where Jon defends Kate, talks about really enjoying doing the show on TLC, etc. I could find other examples for either one of them but that isn't the point.

    I think that Kate became very frustrated with Jon agreeing for her to do the book tour and then resenting her doing it, along with his generally not wanting to do anything. She had signed contracts to do the tour and she was stuck doing it. I think she knew Jon was unhappy but had no idea how to "fix" it or to get it to change. Despite that, I think she was really into wishful feelings that some how it would magically return to the way things were before.

    Perhaps this is just egocentric on my part. I know with my first marriage that although I knew it was broken to the point that it was probably unfixable, I still kept hoping and praying that somehow he would return to the person that I had initially fallen in love with, that special person, instead of the selfish, self-centered person he had become. It didn't happen, but I was still hoping.

    All of that said, despite her frustration with Jon and vice versa, I think that Kate still loved Jon (and still does for that matter) and was very hopeful that the "old" Jon would resurface.

    I think Jon's actions (not his words but his actions) have shown all the world that he is erratic in his feelings about any given topic at any given moment; and those feelings flip-flop sometimes within the same hour.

    Has this trait always been there or did it begin to surface late in 2008 (say Oct-December)? I think it has become more pronounced. Is it from drinking, drugs, poor choice of friends, terrible advice from others, mental problems, immaturity, jealousness, or whatever? I don't think we'll ever know. I know that both drugs and alcohol can exacerbate problems and characteristics. I also know (from family experience and from post-grad courses) that some mental problems become more problematic for some people as they move into their 30's.

    Whatever the reason, I do wish Jon would get good counseling. And not from Rabbi "Can I Make a Quick Buck" or somebody who will sell him out. I'd like to see him find a good therapist who can truly help him become more self aware. I really think that Jon's biggest problem is that he doesn't like himself! But, that also said, you have to be willing to change or it's just a waste of money.

    Despite all we've seen from Jon, I don't think he's hit rock bottom yet. Until that happens, I don't think he'll change.

    I hope he can find a love interest that will be helpful to him. But, here again, I think he's got problems. The whole Hailey-Jon relationship seems very detrimental to BOTH of them. The immaturity, inability to tell the truth, or whatever, they need to both end it and move on. But, it appears that neither of them is really capable of doing this. And that is sad.

    Jon isn't Jewish. I'm not so sure that he's a Christian either. But, for his own peace of mind, I think to get peaceful feelings right now he needs to return to his roots and what was meaningful in the past.

    I do hope that both of the parental Gosselins, as well as the Gosselin children will be able to celebrate the holidays together. This means acting as an adult and putting the needs of the children first.

  73. Thanks Baby Mama, big fan of your site as well!

  74. NJMOM said...
    I am sorry Jon had no problem with going ahead with buying the house. How did he think that they were going to pay for it, if it were not for the continuation of the show.

    PAR said...
    So what is the right thing to do when you are miserable and have 18+ months on your contract to go? Well, I would have had a ton of respect for Jon if he had figured out a way to help support the family without the show, if he had said no to the purchase of a $1.1 million home knowing how rocky things were, if he had gone to TLC and said "I know we have a contract but I can't live a lie. Let's figure out how to restructure the show." If he had done that and TLC refused, I might agree with you Schmeckygirl.

    Jon and Kate BOTH purchased the new expensive house knowing things were rocky in their marriage and that there was a chance they may not continue their marriage as well as the show. It's almost like people believe all the bad decisions that didn't work out were Jon's and the good ones are Kate's. The dogs were Jon's mistakes, yet they BOTH bought them. Kate even picked them out.

    I think the new house was a HUGE mistake and they are BOTH responsible for making it. Especially knowing now how little money they were making per episode and that they didn't even sell the first house and were still making mortgage payments on it.

    I agree that Jon was stupid for buying the house, but why just Jon? It was a decision they both made.

    I think most of us have said Jon has made a lot of stupid choices and I don't think any of us are loyal Jon followers and defend him no matter what. I know I'm don't. I think Jon has made huge mistakes and didn't handle himself very well this past year. I also feel Jon needs to step up and be a man and make better decisions and do something to make money to support his family. I do think, however, that Jon went through a "crisis" and was out of control and needed therapy and good advice and didn't get it.

    I do think he is responsible for his actions, no matter what. His responsibility was most importantly to his children and to himself, not to TLC and his "contract". His marriage ended and TLC was more concerned with their profits and their image and that the show must go on. Sure they took a hiatus but it was to re-edit their footage and continue the show. They should have taken a longer hiatus and insisted both Kate and Jon and the children went to counseling, separate or together. They controlled so many other aspects of their lives, why not that?

    As for scrolling past people's comments, I'm not sure I understand that mentality. I enjoy reading everyone's comments whether or not I agree with them. I think everyone's comments contribute to this blog and make it interesting. I'm not sure why people can't handle an opposing viewpoint and have to scroll past them. I think both sides of the Jon and Kate debate make valid points a lot of the time.

    I don't think anything anyone has said on here is that bad that you shouldn't read their comments. There are no "trolls" on here and Baby Mama obviously feels they contribute to her blog. To each their own of course, it's just something I don't understand.

  75. PAR said:
    If he had done that and TLC refused, I might agree with you Schmeckygirl.
    My point is that none of us know. We don't know what took place between Jon and TLC before it all went bad.

    We can assume Jon took a passive-aggressive stance with TLC but we don't know that. We all saw him say on the show that he didn't want to continue. They may have used his contract to make him feel like he had no choice. We just don't know.

    We also have to remember that Kate wanted to continue the show no matter what. If Jon and Kate both decided that stopping the show during their marital problems was what they needed and wanted to do TLC may have had to stop filming.

    Yes, Jon was wrong if he didn't stand up for himself and his family against TLC but for ten years he had no say in a lot of things. Some men get stuck in that role and don't know how to stand up for themselves. Sad but true.

    It's the same for some women... that's why they always go to men that abuse them one after the other even though they don't want to be abused. (This is an example, I'm not speaking about the allegations that Kate abused Jon.) Until they get help to break the cycle they won't make good relationship decisions. Jon needed and still needs counseling/therapy to make good decisions.

  76. Shelly, all I have to say is what if I said this, a statement based on factual evidence:

    "Which brings me to another point Kate has lied about, but I am sure you have an excuse for this also. On the Today Show she stated that Jon took $230,000 of the $231,000. The court ordered Jon to return $180,000. So, what is the excuse for the extra $50,000.00?
    There is no excuse except she is a liar. Plain and simple."

    Lucsymom, I was making a point of the double standard towards the two, where Jon is labeled an awful parent for handling of Mady and Cara during the final episode. I'm not saying you personally but some people are fine when people bash Jon for certain his parenting but when people do it to Kate their are labeled as trolls. Both parents have made mistakes but are still good parents. There are a lot of different ways to handle the same situations because one person wouldn't do it the same way doesn't mean their wrong.

    Season 5 was just like a possible imaginary "Season 6" for Jon, it was an option that TLC could exercise if they wanted to. "It's hard to walk away from a big numbers"

  77. Hi everyone! How's the holiday season coming along for u? I'm still struggling with my Christmas shopping! Urrrrgh!

    Now I don't want to get into the whole season-counting or date-establishing debate, but I do want to put in my two cents worth.

    Sometimes I feel that we focus too much on timeline, we fail to realise that when it comes to matters of the heart, how can you really put a timeline to it? How can you say I realised I stopped loving this person on MM/DD/YYY. By the end of Season 4, we could all see that their marriage was starting to get shaky. Jon wanted out, but Kate wanted to continue.

    Consider this was your marriage and it really is on the rocks, but you're still working on it. Would you really want to show this to the world, knowing that the paparazzi would eat you alive? Not the most ideal when you want to focus on working things out, right? If that is the case, would you not tell TLC to reduce the emphasis on the arguments? I don't think they acted particularly loving by the time things were bad. You can't really call that a sham when what you see is still real, but that some things are kept in the closet so as not to "wake up the sleeping giant". Don't we do this all the time? If I am having problems with my partner, I don't want the everyone to know it, not when we are trying to work things out. We don't pretend to be particularly intimate, but we are civil towards each other when others are around, and we leave the arguments behind closed doors. We don't want to "air our dirty laundry" and neither did Jon and Kate at that time.

    Even if Kate had made the comment to Jon in October '08, that she didn't know why they were still married, or something to that effect, it doesn't mean the marriage was officially over then, at least not in real-time. If it was, the divorce would have started then. Same for many marriages, even if both parties are sleeping in separate quarters and arguing, the fact that they haven't shouted "DIVORCE!" is because they are still waiting for things to change and to find a way to pick up the pieces. Maybe by then Kate had stopped holding Jon back on his "college activities", maybe she couldn't stop him anymore. But perhaps she tolerated it still and was hoping his "search" for his "lost youth" was a phase and he would wake up to become the "old Jon" again.

    About Jon changing the dates everytime he goes for a different interview, I'm not surprised. There could be a number of reason we do not know of. Perhaps Jon's changing the dates was justification that he had not cheated on Kate. Then again, perhaps it was a matter of time and perception. If I use my past relationship as an example, I broke up with my ex in February 2008, but after a year now, I would probably say that our relationship ended in december 2007. Back in December, though the relationship was rocky, we were still trying to work things out. I wouldn't have said that it ended then, since in my mind, we were still working on it. But after all this time, when I really think about it, the last two months wasn't much of a relationship at all, and so now I'd say it ended in December 2008. Time and perception.

    At the end of the day, whatever calculations we make on episodes, or dates, we can say for certain when the marriage really ended, and perhaps Jon and Kate may never agree to a date that it had really ended either, not if one party was still trying, while the other had given up. But one thing's for sure, Jon jumped into his subsequent relationships much too fast, and at that time, is priorities were really screwed up. I wonder if he has even got his priorities straightened out yet. From the past few mths, it certainly doesn't seem so. And for this, I can only say that whatever hope I had for him has absolutely diminished. Can anyone even begin to understand how Kate must be feeling then?

  78. I have been reading but like a couple of others, people have been saying a lot of what I want to say so I just didn't post. Lucky for you all, it saved you a couple of my novels. LOL

    I just want to add a couple of comments.

    I think the biggest thing is that despite all of the bickering that is going on about things like when the marriage ended and why and buying the new house being a mistake and all, the most important thing to remember is that none of us know the real and honest truth. How can we? Anything any of us say is really just speculation and are our opinions and observations based on things we have seen in the media and the show. I know I personally have made a lot of assumptions as well and have been convinced at times that I had it all figured out but when you go by what you are given, it's not a whole lot that is reliable.

    Take the show. We all know how skewed and edited the show is. Both Jon and Kate have agreed at different times that they were made to kind of play different roles (ie: Kate the mean one and Jon the mellow one) and in the same token I agree with the people that said recently that TLC covered up a lot of things early on when things were going badly between Jon and Kate too.

    Then there is the media. Do I even need to explain why that is not a reliable source? lol

    Finally, there are interviews from Jon and Kate themselves. I'm sorry but even then you are not left confident that you know the truth. Kate at best is evasive and not eager to talk except the little things she divulged toward the end and Jon, well you can't believe a word he says anymore because he has proven to be a liar on so many occasions. I can't even believe he still has the nerve to tell Hailey he didn't sleep with any of those women even after all the testimony under oath. Even between Jon and Kate, one denies the other's side of the story so who do you believe? I think it is safe to say that their was probably fault on both sides and leave it at that.

    As for the house, I firmly believe although it is just another assumption based on what I have observed, that when it was purchased, that marriage was well on its way to being over. I'll never forget the way they brought it up to the kids, it just seemed so forced and unhappy. These monotonous voices saying surprise, we're moving. I never felt that it was a joyous move and I really do believe that the house was more for the children. The fact that they said the house was not for them but for the children says to me that they did not buy that house with the intention of being a happy family there. I think they wanted a place far from the paps and prying eyes where the children could have space and feel safe. Was it the best choice? Maybe not on their incomes but it is a decision they both made. I also think Kate wasn't expecting the show to be over so soon after buying that house otherwise it would have influenced the decision on what they could afford.

    AS for Jon and the whole TLC mess, I agree with the person that said that Jon would have come out of this looking a lot more respectable if he sat down with TLC and said that he couldn't live the lie anymore and that the needed to work it into the show sooner than it was made public. That way people would have known things were not good and he wouldn't have become this scum bag overnight. Then again, we don't know if he did do that and TLC refused? Maybe that is why he has been so angry and wanted to screw them over. It's not right but we don't know.

    Despite all of these things, Jon has made some terrible decisions and he really does need help. He has become a very screwed up and not very likeable person and he needs to be able to love himself and be confidfent in himself before he can be a good father, boyfriend or even friend to anyone.

    Just my two cents...

  79. Mobius Designs~ I normally would have immediately deleted your post but wanted to respond to you personally. Slandering Kate & calling her a liar is when my gavel comes down...(that, and lets face it, it's just makes me feel special lol) Just because the court ordered Jon to only pay back $180,000 instead of the $230,000 does not, a liar make. There could have been numerous reasons for that.

    And lets face it, theres enough vile hating Kate sites, just because people on this site want to vent about Jon does not mean theres a double standard. I feel that I have been more than fair on this site letting people exercise both viewpoints. I hope you agree..

  80. Linda, Shelly, PAR, NJMOM, I agree. Thanks for your thoughts.

    Schmecky, I just wanted to say that I appreciate the fact that although you don’t share the opinions of some others, you aren’t mean spirited or caustic at all. I agree that the differing opinions make things interesting around here, but I do get so tired of those who are negative, and that’s not you!

  81. Baby Mama, I could be wrong but I think Mosbius was just giving an example of something someone could say based on facts yet twisted to make them seem like a liar.

    Another mom, I enjoyed your two cents.

    Raelin, I think you brought up valid points and if TLC wasn't trying to continue making money off Jon and Kate by continuing filming I may actually believe that. I don't think TLC did it for their privacy. I think they did it to continue the show. But that's just my opinion.

  82. Raelin I agee with everything you said. I also think that they bought the house probably hoping that the added space would lessen their marital tensions when instead it amplified them. The stress of moving and the fact that they could just go somewhere else instead of working an issue out hurt them. This happens with couples a lot, they think they can save a marriage by having another child, quitting a job, getting a boob job, whatever, and things end up getting worse. While there is speculation as to whether the Gosselins can afford their large home (and I really wouldn't call it a mansion)can you imagine these last months in the old one with the paparazzi and whatnot, the the paparazzi would be right on top of them and the entire street would have problems. I also think that if they would have started showing the bad marriage earlier, it might have drawn more paparazzi attention to them sooner. We can go back in retrospect and figure out better ways to handle a situation, but that doesn't make it any easier in the heat of the moment.

  83. I've kept quiet but I just wanted to add one comment.

    The definition of a troll on this site is people who call us sheeple for liking Kate. A troll is a person who bashes other people they do not know for their opinion. You will not find one person who frequents this site attacking any body for liking Jon. Do we say disparaging things about Jon himself? You betcha. But that's our right. Baby Mama is usually pretty fair about posting things that any one has to say that is productive and flows with the discussion. Fly-by Kate bashing? Not so much. It has been agreed upon many times on this site that some of Kate's choice wouldn't always be our own. AGAIN. We don't bash for OPINIONS. Sometimes we get annoyed, but hey, we're only human right?

    And now I'm done. Happy Holidays every one! :)

  84. Jon broke?

    Btw, for a good laugh, note the last paragraph, last sentence.

  85. Go Baby Mama,
    Your the Boss!!! Or should I say ref? sp?

  86. Sorry BabyMama I thank you for allowing people with opposing views of the situation to discuss it here. My point with the statement in quotations was to prove a point. I was hypothetically stating what if I had said the that towards Kate on here and what the reaction would be. I just took a statement made and replaced Jon with Kate using the exact same language. Hopefully no one takes that out of context and believes it was meant seriously to bash Kate.

    I believe the "Jon broke" article may have to do with Jon's old divorce lawyer(Meyers?) filing an emergency motion to receive his payment ($44K?) in full before the divorce and money is allocated to each party.

  87. Just to clarify my posts. I did not twist facts to make Jon appear a liar. He has done a good job of that on his own. My original post about the money was taken from figures directly from the court proceedings last Wednesday on ROL. I am not adding several seasons together to get a suitable number, as anyone can clearly tell by reading them.

    Thanks Baby Mama for your post. Thanks NJMOM.

  88. Tashapork, I agree with the retrospect comment too! Everyone is going round and round, and Iam dizzy!
    Hindsite is always better then foresite. Too bad J&K didn't have much of either. I know when they settle this thing, meaning the Big D, their communication level will improve. When there is nothing left to argue about, single parents can concentrate on the best things to do with the kids. MHO! School activities and more.
    Happy Holidays
    Yesterday we got our first real snow fall, here in MI. I like to look at it but the driving was nuts. People forget how to drive each year, tons of accidents in the am and overnight.

  89. Shelly, just to clarify I was not saying you twist anything to make Jon a liar, I was just explaining MD's comment because I didn't know if she'd be back to explain and I didn't want Baby Mama to be upset over it for nothing.

  90. Not sure how accurate the "Jon is broke" article is, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is. I think the fact that he put $100,000 into his foundation is admirable but insane.

    He could have used his previous popularity to get other people to donate to the foundation but not necessarily put that much of the family money into it himself. If they had millions available that would be one thing but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    I do wonder how Jon is supporting himself right now. I hope he saved all the money he made doing media appearances and is using it wisely (up until TLC takes it all away that is). I wonder how much of it went to the Hellers. Hopefully they will at least come through for him in the TLC lawsuit.

  91. Not to beat a dead horse, but (OK, so I guess I am beating a dead horse after all) ... re: the Shelly/Mosbius discussion. I see all of the disagreement coming from how each "counted" the episodes. And I do agree with Mosbius (surprise!), I don't understand how Shelly tabulated the episodes to arrive at 43.

    The contract in question (per court docs) was signed in June 2008. Season 4 aired its first episode June 23 - I think it's safe to assume that the contract applied to Season 4. There were 41 episodes, and 8 of those were one hour long. That equates to Mosbius # of 49 (41+8) - 30 minute episodes at $22,500.

    Season 5, while contracted for 50 (I think), only aired 23 episodes, and again, 7 of those were one hour long. That comes to 30 (23+7) - 30 minute episodes at $22,500.

    And so ... Seasons 4 and 5 generated GROSS income of $1,777,500 (Jon's 10% is "his" $177,750).

    I am not trying to be argumentative or take anybody's side. In all honesty, I'm an accountant and it drives me NUTS when I can't figure out a calculation that is being referred to. So I'm not saying Mosbius is right and Shelly is wrong. I'm saying that I UNDERSTAND Mosbius's calculation, and I do NOT understand Shelly's.

    Shelly, would you be willing to explain how you decided upon 43 episodes? I get the $22K (subtracting the agent fees @ $500), it makes sense and is actually probably OVERLY generous; i.e. I'll be the agent fee was MORE. But I don't "get" where the 43 comes from. I know you said from Radar and the court play-by-play, but apparently I'm dense, cuz I am STILL confused.

    I understand if you DON'T want to discuss further ... like I said, I'm just a math junkie and it BUGS the heck out of me! (LOL)